Heroclix

[THEPAT24]

Ambush but is a great sculpt and a decent support piece. He also has stealth I think.

[Jonah Hex]

He doesn't have stealth, but he does have phasing and super senses down his entire dial.

[THEPAT24]

Ok phasing was what he had. I've only played against him one time.

[Jonah Hex]

Is there going to be a game tonight?

[Jonah Hex]

Got another box of CD today. Got the unique Captain Boomerang out of it. Every box I buy at FV either has a unique or a great Vet like Supes or Bizzaro in it.

[Jonah Hex]

From the March 31st rules update from Wizkids.

Flying Characters• Flight is not a Power, and therefore cannot be countered by Outwit or ignored by Pulse Wave.

[Jonah Hex]

In regards to stealthed characters, when they in hindering terrain all lines of sight to them are considered blocked. I assume this also means from above.

This is from the Wiz Kids rules about looking down on a stealthed character.

An elevated character can see “over” hindering terrain, and thus can draw a clear line of fire to a non-elevated character with Stealth, unless the character with Stealth occupies a square with hindering terrain.

From reading the boards at Pojo and HCRealms, the ways to attack stealthed characters when they are in hindering terrain are with a close combat attack, figures with Superman or Ultimates TA and with the bright lights and trick shot cards

This is a post from HC Realms and the response.

Morgan de la Fay did it again. Selene threw Morgan into a group of 3 hand ninja's, all with stealth, and all on hindering terrain. Morgan was adjacent to them all.

Now, we deemed that because split shot requires a ranged attack (and because she is a flyer, that was a possibility even when adjacent), that ranged attacks required line of sight. But being that the three adjacent enemy Hand Ninja's were in stealth, we figured a split shot + Mind Control was impossible. Morgan settled for a single Mind Control at close range (thus no longer requiring line of sight because of close combat/adjacent) and took control of a single Ninja.

Did we play it correctly?


Response #1

100% correct. Good call!

Response #2

You played correctly on all accounts for those very reasons. Great job! What did she make the ninja do?

So I take it from all that that any flying character can't see a stealthed figure in hindering terrain, thus any non Supes TA, non Ultimates TA flying character can't take a shot at said stealthed character. In other words.. you can't just shoot my Dr Midnite medic with just any old flyer when he is hiding in the bushes.

[Xanth]

You have to remember John, we use a bastardized set of rules. We should set down and determine what rules apply. I can see that flight reasonably should be able to be outwitted. Any ability that makes you different from a normal man should be counted as a power. I say we should give it a vote.

[Xanth]

www.wizkidsgames.com/heroclix/dc/figuregallery.asp?action=showability&abilityid=197
On out wit on the Heroclix site it says:


OUTWIT
(optional): Once during your turn, as a free action, this character may counter a power on a target opposing character. Treat the target as if it does not have the countered power. That power remains countered until the beginning of your next turn. This character must be within 10 squares of the target and have a clear line of fire to the target. Instead of a power, you may choose to counter an opposing flying character’s ability to soar; in this case, lower the soaring character to hovering mode. If this character loses Outwit or is KOd, the countered power returns immediately. This power may not be used during another action.

[Jonah Hex]

That is from the original rules. They update them, the rule I posted was from the March 2006 rules update. Here it is.

www.wizkidsgames.com/heroclix/documents/HeroClix_General_Errata.pdf.

The only powers that can be outwitted are ones that are colored in on the dial.

We are pretty far off from some of the rules though. I thought pushing was our biggest bastardization but it turns out that how we treat soaring characters is far different.

From as closely as I can tell, soaring characters can only attack other soaring characters, even when making ranged attacks. Also, the range of a ground based character is cut in half if they are attacking a soaring character. You also can't ever go over blocking terrain from my understanding of the official rules. Even when flying you can't shoot from the top of a building or over the top of another building unless you have knocked down that blocking terrain.

It doesn't really matter to me that we are off from the official rules but we should get our rules nailed down where they differ from the actual game because it leads to much confusion.

[Jonah Hex]

These appear to be where we are off the most from the HC official rules.

Pushing

Official version:

If you give an action (other than a free action) to the same character on two consecutive turns, turn that character’s combat dial once clockwise (the same direction you click a character when it takes damage) after it resolves its current action. This is called pushing a character, or pushing damage. The clockwise click represents the fatigue caused by taking actions back to back. You may not give any character an action (other than a free action) on three consecutive turns. Pushing damage may also result if a character is the target of some powers. If you push a character, put a second action token on that character, and leave both tokens until your next turn. On that turn, the two tokens will remind you that you can’t give the character any action (except a free action). At the end of that turn, remove both tokens.

Our version:
If you give an action (other than a free action) to the same character on the same turn, turn that character’s combat dial once clockwise after it resolves its current action. This is called pushing a character, or pushing damage.

Flying
Official version:

Flying characters have two flight modes: hovering and soaring. A flying character occupies the square over which it is flying. No other character can occupy the same square as a flying character. A flying character can change flight modes when moving. Changing flight modes reduces the character’s speed value for that action by 1 for each change. Count this cost when you move the flight indicator.

Hovering: A hovering character is floating near the ground. To show that a character is hovering, move the flight indicator on its clear center post to its lowest position. A hovering character may ignore the effects of opposing characters and hindering terrain on movement. Hovering characters may change elevation and even hover on top of elevated terrain. Hovering characters can move over outdoor blocking terrain without changing flight mode. For purposes of breaking away and close combat, consider a hovering character to be at the level of elevation its base is on. Hovering is the only flight mode that characters may use indoors. Hovering characters and characters on the ground do not have to make break away rolls when in a square adjacent to soaring characters.

Soaring: A soaring character is flying high above the battlefield. To show that a character is soaring, move the flight indicator on its clear center post to its highest position. Soaring characters ignore the effects of all types of terrain, objects, and characters on movement. Soaring characters can affect only other soaring characters. Soaring characters, on the other hand, may be attacked by hovering or ground-based characters that possess ranged attacks but the range of the ground based character is cut in half. Soaring characters have to break away only from other soaring characters.

Carrying Other Characters: Flying characters and characters using certain Feat cards or certain Powers and Abilities can carry other friendly characters that have the dolphin or boot symbol; characters with the wing symbol (flying characters) cannot be carried. A character able to carry other characters cannot pick up or carry a character who is holding an object, but the character able to carry another character may carry both a character and an object, if able. In order for a character to carried, it must first be picked up. Picking up a character is a free action, but a flying character must be in hovering mode in order to pick up another character.

Our version:
Flying

Flying characters have two flight modes: hovering and soaring.
A flying character occupies the square over which it is flying. No other character can occupy the same square as a flying character. A flying character can change flight modes when moving. Changing flight modes reduces the character’s speed value for that action by 1 for each change. Count this cost when you move the flight indicator.

Hovering: A hovering character is floating near the ground. To show that a character is hovering, move the flight indicator on its clear center post to its lowest position. A hovering character may ignore the effects of opposing characters and hindering terrain on movement. Hovering characters may change elevation and even hover on top of elevated terrain. Hovering characters can move over outdoor blocking terrain without changing flight mode. For purposes of breaking away and close combat, consider a hovering character to be at the level of elevation its base is on. Hovering is the only flight mode that characters may use indoors. Hovering characters and characters on the ground do not have to make break away rolls when in a square adjacent to soaring characters.

Soaring: A soaring character is flying high above the battlefield. To show that a character is soaring, move the flight indicator on its clear center post to its highest position. Soaring characters ignore the effects of all types of terrain, objects, and characters on movement. Soaring characters can affect ground based or soaring characters. Soaring characters may be attacked by hovering or ground-based characters that possess ranged attacks. Soaring characters have to break away only from other soaring characters.

Carrying Other Characters: Flying characters and characters using certain Feat cards or certain Powers and Abilities can carry other friendly characters that have the dolphin or boot symbol; characters with the wing symbol (flying characters) cannot be carried. A character able to carry other characters cannot pick up or carry a character who is holding an object, but the character able to carry another character may carry both a character and an object, if able. In order for a character to carried, it must first be picked up. Picking up a character is a free action, but a flying character must be in hovering mode in order to pick up another character.

blocking terrain

Official version:

Prevents an attacker from drawing a clear line of fire. It is represented on the battle map by thick black lines. Characters may not cross blocking terrain and are not adjacent to characters on the opposite side of blocking terrain.

Our version:
A character who is soaring can draw a clear line of fire over the top of blocking terrain while outdoors.

I don't mind using the rules the way we play now, but I don't think a character should be able to see and attack a stealthed character in hindering terrain just because it is flying. Under the normal rules those characters couldn't attack a ground based character out in the open, let alone one with stealth. Allowing that pretty much makes stealth useless outdoors.

Under the official rules, I would have been able to keep playing on Saturday, because Supes and Strange would have had to land to attack Doomsday.

As for using outwit on flight, I don't mind keeping the ability to outwit flight. I had obviously just saw a newer version of the rules than what had been printed out. I hadn't saw the older version before.

[TheAl]

Soaring characters ignore the effects of all types of terrain, objects, and characters on movement. Soaring characters can affect only other soaring characters. This being said. Soaring characters should be able to shoot over buildings or people on them. The whole affecting only soaring characters is ridiculous. superman can shoot anyone with his heat vision as long as he is looking at them. Now that there are more than just me the steve and the pat that play. I am all for hashing out some rules.

[Jonah Hex]

I think the official rules are that way for situations just like I mentioned about Doomsday. In tournaments they often play with prepackaged blind draws. If you draw a ground based character with no ranged attack against a flyer you wouldn't be able to hit them at all if they could just stay up soaring and knock the crap out of you while you couldn't attack them back. So they made the rules so that flying characters had to come down to hover to attack ground based characters.

[Jonah Hex]

Dial for a potential Lobo Unique I found.

[Xanth]

That Lobo dial was scary. Two hits with Will power and your dead unless you have damage reducers. I ordered 4 unopened boxes on ebay for $10, and got alot of loose figures in the mix of Indy and marvel. No great loose figures, but I did get a veteran lockjaw, and a few other decent veterans. In the boxes I had two indy, and two Armor wars I got a unique Shi, unique Hecate, a unique Jocasta, and a unique Iron Monger. Where are all the power houses at? I need a unique Lobo.